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[求助]签不签这个卖身契？

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#21: thanks, i would still like some legal advice. 如果能证明合同不合法， 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:07
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skyler 写道:

you just made a very convincing argument, good luck.

我就impress了我未来的老板一把，不是吗？

#22: 一看就是原始土人公司，现代公司雇佣讲的是 At-will employment! 不能签, 作者: 抢注G8, 来自: 苏州

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:08
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作者：抢注G8 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

At-will employment is a doctrine of American law that defines an employment relationship in which either party can break the relationship with no liability provided there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship and that the employer does not belong to a collective bargain (i.e. a union). Under this legal doctrine:
“ any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work. [1^ Mark A. Rothstein, Andria S. Knapp & Lance Liebman, Cases and Materials on Employment Law (New York: Foundation Press, 1987), 738.]

虽然这种理念出自于美国，但是，在中国，五年是个啥概念，还有那么多的赔偿！简直就是卖身契。在中国，五年的变化实在太多，不定因素也太多，其他的机会也很多。

同时，这个条件根本就没有任何对等的权益。既然雇佣合同就这么苛刻，该公司的文化看来也很成问题，根本不值得考虑！

作者：抢注G8 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

#23: provided there was no express contract for a definite term 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:11
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作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

抢注G8 写道:

一看就是原始土人公司，现代公司雇佣讲的是 At-will employment! 不能签,

this training bond is one of those express contracts!

外加，这是个欧洲公司。

您还真是说对了，原始土人公司，我又将是本地员工的第一人。回国4年，做了3个start up. 再锻炼点关门的经验，我可以开开关厂了。

作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

#24: I see. They asked for this bond to keep you in this 作者: theoretical,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:19
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作者：theoretical 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

Sandy_Rose 写道:

my situation is:

position. I don't think you need any lawyer for now. You definately can work out this issue via talking with your "boss". I have been through some tougher situation than this. The bottom line for most western companies is to keep their stuff happy. However, since you are taking a key role, you may need to sign some contract later on. The term can be from 2 to 5 yrs. This is very common practice for any reputable company. The bright side is they have to pay you a nice severance package if they let you go earlier.

作者：theoretical 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

上一次由theoretical于2008-7-19 周六, 00:27修改，总共修改了1次

#25: 难道他们要送你去ISEAD, IMD或HEC拿个MBA吗？啥培训要那么高的代价？ 作者: 抢注G8, 来自: 苏州

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:20
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Sandy_Rose 写道:

provided there was no express contract for a definite term

#26: not true at all. It depends on your position. 作者: theoretical,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:21
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抢注G8 写道:

一看就是原始土人公司，现代公司雇佣讲的是 At-will employment! 不能签,

#27: right, i am okay with a 3 yr bond, and of course less fine 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:25
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作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

theoretical 写道:

I see. They asked for this bond to keep you in this

if the company can survive 3 yrs, i am not worried. and i really don't think their investment is short term.

plus, personally, within that 3 to 5 yrs, i will get married and have kids, i am unlikely to take on a new challenge. they should feel pretty safe with me being with the company for at least 3 yrs...

作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

#28: the reason why i wanted legal advice is just to impress 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:27
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作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

theoretical 写道:

I see. They asked for this bond to keep you in this

my new boss, not really to have law suit or anything,

i am actually pretty sure i can talk him out of this. after all, i talked him into giving me whatever i wanted, didn't i? Wink

作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

#29: Indemnification contracts and similar arrangements for 作者: 抢注G8, 来自: 苏州

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:30
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作者：抢注G8 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

theoretical 写道:

not true at all. It depends on your position.

officers and directors?

这样的合同实际上也是对等的，而且往往对Employee有利。没见那些大公司的CEO被解雇时拿到可以退休的package吗？

既然五年内有赔偿，那么也应该是相互的。五年内被公司解雇，雇员也应该有赔偿。

我个人觉得五年的时间和机会成本太高。

作者：抢注G8 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

上一次由抢注G8于2008-7-19 周六, 00:33修改，总共修改了1次

#30: That is definately a wrong move. If I were you, I will talk 作者: theoretical,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:32
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Sandy_Rose 写道:

the reason why i wanted legal advice is just to impress

myself out of this training bond 1st. You alreay impressed your "boss" and that's why he is hiring you.

#31: Exactly. At-will is for low end jobs. 作者: theoretical,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:33
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抢注G8 写道:

Indemnification contracts and similar arrangements for

such as mine! Mr. Green

上一次由theoretical于2008-7-19 周六, 01:31修改，总共修改了2次

#32: 是的，如果不降低赔款，那就应该是对等的，他们要是想炒我，也应该一样赔款。 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:35
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作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

抢注G8 写道:

Indemnification contracts and similar arrangements for

如果期限短些，赔款小些，我下午就签了。那老外刷刷的签了字，看我看了一遍，往包里一放，微笑着说不如我们面试IT先吧？他就知道没戏，说如果我有什么意义可以跟他谈。

作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

#33: as the HR manager, it is definitely more convincing to talk 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:37
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theoretical 写道:

That is definately a wrong move. If I were you, I will talk

in a general sense, in stead of personal.

putting myself on his side makes him think i am thinking for the company's benefit in stead of my own. after all, i still want the package!

#34: rediculas 这个词听说过伐？ 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:41
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抢注G8 写道:

难道他们要送你去ISEAD, IMD或HEC拿个MBA吗？啥培训要那么高的代价？

#35: when someone says that "that's impossible", what they are 作者: 抢注G8, 来自: 苏州

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:48
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Sandy_Rose 写道:

rediculas 这个词听说过伐？

really saying is that they don't know how to do it. such as:

"640k ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, Co-Founder and CEO of Microsoft, 1981

#36: haha! i do believe everything is possible, and... 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:50
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抢注G8 写道:

when someone says that "that's impossible", what they are

impossible is nothing, Laughing

#37: 也许能证明你是出色的工会领袖，但是，不会雇用你做HR Manager！哈哈 作者: 抢注G8, 来自: 苏州

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:55
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Sandy_Rose 写道:

thanks, i would still like some legal advice. 如果能证明合同不合法，

由于中国的劳工法漏洞太多，执法也不严，老外的公司正好想沾空子，你却来阻止他们？

#38: 老外还是注重公司形象的，特别是刚刚落地的新公司，花大价钱都没有人愿意给他做事，你看他在不在意。 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 00:59
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作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

抢注G8 写道:

也许能证明你是出色的工会领袖，但是，不会雇用你做HR Manager！哈哈

没有一家外资公司会愿意在别人的国土上搞劳资纠纷。通常的做法是花钱息事宁人。他新公司会愿意埋个地雷？

如果真签了，就跟下面说的黑吃黑，你看法院帮谁？

作者：Sandy_Rose 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

#39: 更何况，这个合同99%是那个猎头咨询公司给搞的。他自己也不过是个打工的，保守的很呢！ 作者: Sandy_Rose,

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 01:02
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抢注G8 写道:

也许能证明你是出色的工会领袖，但是，不会雇用你做HR Manager！哈哈

他会愿意给不是自己做的事情负责？高估了保守的英国人了。

#40: 有道理！不过，万一遇到从小就缺钙的中国法官和地方官就不太好办了，他们也不希望影响GDP和政绩。 作者: 抢注G8, 来自: 苏州

时间: 2008-7-19 周六, 01:11
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作者：抢注G8 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

Sandy_Rose 写道:

老外还是注重公司形象的，特别是刚刚落地的新公司，花大价钱都没有人愿意给他做事，你看他在不在意。

同志，“要替领导着想嘛”！ Mr. Green

作者：抢注G8 在海归商务发贴, 来自【海归网】 http://www.haiguinet.com

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